Sep 11, 2018
Listen to Wendy talk with Joanna from USA about her successful journey on Heal Endometriosis Naturally, 12 Week Online Foundation Membership Program with Wendy K Laidlaw.
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Read the full transcript below:-
"Wendy: Hi, this is Wendy Laidlaw here from Heal Endometriosis
Naturally. I am joined today with Joanna, which is very exciting.
Hi, Joanna.
Joanna: Hi, Wendy.
Wendy: How are you today?
Joanna: I am doing really well.
Wendy: Well, thank you so much for agreeing to be interviewed with
me today. I know everyone that first comes on to be interviewed --
it's a bit nerve-wracking. It's kind of like "What questions is she
going to ask me?" but I was particularly excited about interviewing
you today because you're coming to the end of the foundation
program. You've had stage four Endometriosis. You've had cysts.
You've had adhesions. You've had everything. And I think people
will really be interested in your stories so I thought maybe you
could just give a little bit of background. I know you've read my
book and that lead you to the foundation program, but perhaps you
could tell a little bit more about where did you see information
about the book, what you got from the book and then we can get more
information from you then.
Joanna: Okay. So I didn't know that I had Endometriosis and about
last year I started getting a lot of pain. I've always had painful
periods. My periods started when I was 13 and I had to leave school
the day it started. I was in so much pain and it's been like that
forever. It's always been taking time off work and leaving a
college class in the middle of a session because your pain was so
intense and crying all the way home because your legs were going
numb. And I always thought that was normal. I had no reason to
question that that was not normal to feel like that during a
period, more so because my sister was like that, my cousins were
like that. It ran in the family. I don't tend to talk about other
girls about how do you feel when you have your period, so I based
it on the people around me and just went on with life and it
actually started getting worse as I got older but more so last
year. The week before my period my insides would start to feel like
they were on fire and very sore like somebody kicked me or punched
me in the gut. Then I would get my period and it would last 8 days
and be horrifically heavy and you'd be so sick and then the whole
week after, up to two weeks after sometimes, I would be, again,
with this super sore gut. And that was completely new, as a whole
new phase for me and I would get maybe four good days and then the
next period would start. So it became pretty cumbersome to deal
with that. It started affecting work and life because I would go to
work and I'd start to get this sore feeling and it would always
start near my ovaries but I always thought it was my appendix. That
was "Something's wrong, it's got to be my appendix," because, like
I said, I never thought it would be my reproductive system acting
up.
Joanna: So I work in the school district. I work with kids so I'm
always on my feet, very active. I'm a very energetic person so I
like to participate with the kids and last year, May, I started
with this extra pain and I couldn't function with the kids. I would
miss about three days a week from work. That would be going in and
begging the principal, "Can I please go home? I can't even carry my
own weight right now. I'm in pain." So eventually I had to make the
call and put my notice in because I wasn't reliable anymore in my
job and started doing test after test, seeing doctor after doctor,
and every test was coming back "There's absolutely nothing wrong
with you. Your imaging looks perfect. The ultrasound, the CRT
scans, X-rays, everything is great." And I was doing two CT scans a
month. You'd do it, you'd go home, the pain would intensify, you
end up back at the urgent care and another CT scan. Eventually they
started calling me an enigma saying, "There's nothing wrong, it's
all in your head. Yeah, you're saying there's this pain but we're
not seeing what you're saying." So that went up from early June
last year until September I had the gynaecologist finally say,
"Well, I don't even think it's gynaecological. I'm gonna send you
to a GI. I think it's in your gut." And the reason was I was
experiencing a ton of gut pain every time I had my period. That
bruising was all in my gut.
Joanna: So of course I went and the GI wants to do a colonoscopy.
So, okay. I prepped for that, which is, by the way, horrible. I
mean, you're already not feeling well and then they put you through
this 10 day prep regiment and you go through the procedure. And
that came back nothing's wrong, because internally they couldn't
see anything wrong. I ended up having a very close friend of mine
through church that had just gone through a hysterectomy. When she
was able to come back to church everyone was kind of hearing that
something's wrong with Joanna. "She's not well," "We're praying for
her," but she didn't quite know what was going on, so she sat down
with me and she said, "Do you mind telling me what are your
symptoms? What are you really feeling?" So I started telling her
about the pain, that my legs would go numb, my back would hurt, my
intestines were always sore, and the ovaries and the period were
horrible, and her first reaction was, "Have you ever asked about
Endometriosis?" Because that's what she had. She had stage four and
unfortunately did not know about things like this. She's one of the
ones that ended up getting a hysterectomy from it all. But I had
never thought about it.
Joanna: I grew up in Canada and would go to the doctor and tell
them about the period and Endometriosis never came up. It was never
a word we would hear about, so I never had reason to think about
it. So I said I would go to the gynaecologist again and asked to
see if you could check for Endometriosis. And apparently there's no
test. You have to get a surgery. Well, I had to go to three
different doctors to convince them to do a surgery. It's not like
everybody goes in asking, "Can you cut me open? I want you to see
what's going on." And finally I kind of have to lie. It wasn't a
full lie but I had to then think back about my family history and
say "I don't know if it's Endometriosis but my grandmother had
severe pain and my mom had this and my sister had this. And
fibroids run in the family." And as soon as that came up, then he
goes, "Okay, I don't think it's what you have but I'm willing to go
in." So I had a [?] [00:07:46] booked a month after the colonoscopy
for endometriosis diagnostic. And that was in November of 2016. And
when he went in I remember coming out of the anaesthesia. You know
they say you're not going to remember what we tell you. I remember
everything he told me. He came and he sat down and he goes, "Well,
I have good news and bad news. The good news is you were right, we
found Endometriosis. The bad news is by the time we've done the
surgery it's so far gone that there is nothing we can do about it."
He said, "I was able to burn off a bit on your ovaries but it's all
over your intestines and we can't burn your intestines." Which I'm
glad they didn't try to cut my intestines.
Wendy: I'm glad, too. Yes.
Joanna: I just remember crying. It was so overwhelming to hear that
you have this. Sorry, I'm going to cry now. It's really
overwhelming to hear that you have a disease that they could have
done something about but they refuse to help you. That's kind of
what the medical system is. But yeah, so I had these pictures and I
just remember going home and staring at these pictures of my gut,
black, covered with these black blood things. I can't even describe
it. It looks like you're invaded with something. It wasn't just a
little bit, so of course it's overwhelming. And to know coming out
of it that you have to live with this pain now. That's their
theory. So I didn't take very well to the surgery and I don't do
well on the drugs so I was very sick from that and two weeks later
he had me come back in to go over things in more detail. The first
thing he wanted to push was Lupron. I have a friend who has breast
cancer and she was on Lupron. I told them, "This is what you give
cancer patients." He says, "Yes, it's a very strong drug, but in
your case this is what you need to go on." And he started
describing the side effects, and it was like if I take this you're
telling me the pain might get better but I'm going to have all
these other symptoms that sound terrible.
I mean, it was you're going through menopause, you might throw up,
you weight gain weight or lose. Just all these things, and I got
scared, and I think it was really good that I got scared or else I
would have taken it. I've always just done what the doctors tell me
because they're doctors and they're supposed to know better and
they're supposed to be there to help us. So I had told him, and
kind of just based back on my friend, she was taking a very natural
route so I told him that day that I wanted to hold off on the
Lupron if I could and seek alternative medicine. And the moment I
said that he wrote me off. He literally said if that's what you’re
going to do I can't work with you anymore. That those are not
doctors. They have no medical educations like we do. We do not
consider them to be actual doctors. So I said okay. There was
nothing I could do. I was actually shocked that that was his
response. So basically, "If you don't want my drugs that's it." So
I went home very upset and my husband sat down with me and said,
"You know well. You want to do the alternative medicine." We hadn't
found a natural path yet but I started doing research online and I
just typed in "healing Endometriosis naturally" and lo and behold
one of the first things that popped up was your book. And at the
time I was too cheap to buy it. At the time we didn't have Kindle,
so I said, "Ooh, if I get Kindle I can get a free 30 day trial and
download the book."
Joanna: And I, despite having been a teacher and now being a
substitute teacher, I really have to be interested in a book to sit
there and read a whole book." And I started reading your book and I
couldn't put it down. I literally read it in like a day. It was
like I was reading my own story. Everything I had found online --
there was all this do this, do this, do this, but there was nobody
that really made me feel like "This is what I went through, this is
what I'm feeling, and this is what worked for me." And I was
skeptical because I'd never believed in taking a natural route.
I've really always been a Western medicine type of person, but the
book really spoke to me and just opened my eyes to the possibility
that, wow, if this is true I can fix things without having to go
the medical route. So we started going through and I saw you had
the cookbook, so I also downloaded that. I ended up buying both. I
actually read your book three or four times because I'd always go
back through and highlighting things and making note of what I
could do. So I decided to try to follow the book to see if I could
fix myself that way. I actually had not seen that you had the
foundation program yet, so it was very hard. It was not easy to
follow in the beginning because you're so used to eating what you
want, eating how much you want to eat. I loved bread, I loved fast
food. We went out and ate all the time. So for me to see no dairy,
no soy, no sugar, it was like "WHAT?"
Joanna: Luckily I have a very loving husband who said, "Okay, if
we're going to do it, I'll do it with you." So we started slow and
the first thing we took out was the gluten, and it took about a
month to finally get past that you're always feeling hungry and
you're always wanting something fatty and sugary. But by the end of
the month we were actually able to take away all four of those
things, and within 8 weeks of starting, on my own, following what I
was trying my best to on your book, I started getting a lot of
relief. And the biggest thing that excited me was the [?]
[00:15:03]. That was the first thing that kind of popped out to me.
I did my own research on it and I said it seems like it's okay to
take. So I started with 40,00 for like a week. And I believe I had
emailed you. I did not expect you to email me back. You emailed
back and you had told me you started with 40 and went up to 80, so
I did that. I was reading in the book about how it can break the
adhesions down. One of the things that had come out of the surgery
in November was that we were infertile because Endometriosis had
completely sealed my tubes shut and the surgeon had come in and
said that if you ever want a chance at having kids, you would have
to try IBF and even that would probably not be successful. Like,
that's how bad your tubes are. That was really hard because what I
failed to mention was that what initially put me into the doctor
was we were starting to consider having children and I had this
pain and they said before we look at fertility, we ought to check
this pain out. And that's how it progressed towards what it is
now.
Joanna: So it was very emotionally really hard. We're in our 30's
now, and to hear that there's maybe no chance. Part of looking up
the Serrapeptase, I came upon a lot of women saying that they had
taken it and they had done a test. It's called an HSG test where
they put a dye in and they check your tubes with this dye. It's
like an ultrasound. Most of them, I was reading, they were saying,
"My tubes are open." I was super skeptical and I said I'm going to
try -- Wendy's book says 12 weeks on Serrapeptase and good things
can happen. So twelve weeks later. I started January, the
Serrapeptase, and then late February, early March -- I want to say
it was the first week of March -- I made an appointment to do an
HSG test. And here you have to go to reproductive clinic. It's a
whole little process, but knowing my history the doctors there were
pretty skeptical that what they're gonna see is maybe it's a little
better but it's probably the same situation. So I was going with
the same idea, and I remember doing the test which was, for me,
actually pretty painful. I don't know why it hurt. Some women say
it doesn't hurt, but other women it does. It feels like you have
this burning liquid going up, because they take a balloon and
expand your uterus. It's not a comfortable test to put yourself
through, but it was worth it if it came back positive. The doctor
was in there and I'm like clenching trying to get through it, and
she stopped and she goes, "It looks perfectly fine. Your flow is so
good." So the dye flows through the tube and she goes, "Everything
is passing through. So your tubes are good." She goes, "There's a
little bit of residue from scar damage, but it's not blocking
anything.”
I just remember being so happy. That was one of the best news we'd
received since all of this had happened. It was just really good to
know that, wow, now we have a chance to have kids. This
Endometriosis can be stopped and things can get better. So after
that was when I had, somehow, online, I had just happened to be
going through stuff online. Your book popped up again and below it
said Foundation Program. And I don't know how I didn't notice it
before and I clicked on it and realised I could work one on one
with you. And at that point your book had helped me so much, I was
really excited to be able to have the opportunity to work with you
because I knew I could get more than from just the book. And so
yeah, I started working with you -- I don't even remember if it was
May or June.
Wendy: Beginning of June, I think it was.
Joanna: Okay. And I probably wouldn't have done it if things had
continued to go well, but after the HSG, about a month after or so,
at the end of April, I remember emailing you saying something's
wrong. My pain is coming back and I'm not quite sure I'm following
everything that I'm on, but it's like everything's reversing. I'm
going backwards rather than forwards and I was seeing a natural
path at the same time because I figured I've gone away from
believing in doctors but now I'm listening to everything the
natural path is telling me because how can natural stuff hurt?
Unfortunately, the natural path -- So I had done a blood test that
tested everything, all my vitamins, all my hormones, and it came
back that my DHEA levels, which is a hormone that you produce
naturally in your body, were low. So she decided to prescribe me
DHEA, which I actually in the office asked her, "Does this have any
side effects?" And her response was, "No. If you take too much your
liver's just going to detox it and out it goes," and whatever.
Actually, I was on DHEA way before that, in January. It was about
four months I was taking it for, but the effects did not hit me
until April. And it was you that mentioned after starting the
program, when you looked at what the natural path had me on, you
said, "Oh my goodness! You're on DHEA what?" and I had never --
even though I questioned what the medical doctors were trying to
put me on, I never questioned the supplement.
Joanna: And in the beginning of June when we started you told me,
"You need to stop right away." And I did not. So you said you need
to look it up and when I looked it up I was shocked to find out
that DHEA increases your estrogen levels immensely. It is
considered a steroid so for men it basically takes estrogen and it
converts to testosterone and they use it as a replacement for
steroids. But for women it basically doubles up your estrogen
level. And when you have Endometriosis you don't want to be doing
that. And I had come across that article I shared with Wendy that
there was experiments done on mice and it showed that they were on
DHEA for 16 days. They were put on 16 milligrams, which is a lot
for a mouse -- for 15 days I was on 10 to 20 milligrams a day for
four months -- and they all had massive cysts in their ovaries. And
that just hit me, and the reason I'm saying that is about mid june
the pain got so bad that I ended up having to go to the ER and they
found cysts on my ovaries. Again, I thought it was my appendix
going, but no. I had a cyst on my right side. One had ruptured and
one had not and it was causing immense pain. I couldn't walk. I
couldn't do anything. Function. And I remember you telling me,
"Even though you stopped the DHEA it's still gonna be in your
system.
Joanna: So the fact of me seeing this research article and now here
I am. I've been on this stuff. It's only been four months and I
have cysts. I believe that it is what helped to cause that. The
gynaecologist disagrees, of course. So that happened and then it
went from "you have a cyst" to "you have a twisted ovary." And then
it went from "you have a twisted ovary" to "it could be something
else." "It could be your [Indiscernible] [00:24:09] Endometriosis.
So we were back on the Endometriosis bandwagon again and again the
emotions hit because I was doing so good. I was back to work, back
to normal life. I would do my photography. Everything was good and
then I got hit and life just went down. It was really hard. I don't
think I've ever cried so much as I've cried in the last two
months.
Joanna: So I ended up -- because the theory was the ovary was
twisting, it was laparoscopic was the answer I guess, to untwist it
in case the ovary was dying. So I did not want to do laparoscopic.
I started doing the [Indiscernible] [00:25:00] massage for a bit
,and it would help but it wouldn't take all the pain away, and so I
finally agreed to do the laparoscopic. Of course they go in -- and
this was just recently, two and a half, three weeks ago on the 20th
of July -- I went in for laparoscopic and I came out and the doctor
said, "So there's no Endometriosis that we can see." She said there
was one thing on your uterus and one thing on your bladder, and
their tiny. They're like peas, tiny little things. And she goes,
"There's nothing on your intestines at all." And it was mind
blowing to hear that. What do you mean there's nothing? They said
there's nothing that can be done. I've been doing this thing with
Wendy but there's got to be something! She said, "No, there
wasn't," and I think that was one of the best news that we had
gotten.
Joanna: It’s still shocking to know that here you were told only a
few months back in November that once it hit your guts like that,
that's it, you've got to be on these heavy drugs and there's
nothing we can do. The likelihood it can spread, get into your
lungs -- they really scare you. And now to hear it's basically in
remission state, it's going away, was just amazing to hear. So it
really just proved -- and in a short while, January to July,
everything cleared up. But I'll show you the pictures. I don't know
if you'll be able to see them well. That was my ovary in November.
Completely white, marbleized, and the black dots on it, the stuff
he burnt off. I mean, even to see your ovaries scalded like that is
not [Indiscernible] [00:27:13] to look at. And then it's really
hard to tell, but that's part of my gut and it's really black. It
looks like it's black and blue. And I have a couple of other
pictures I couldn't find, but basically a lot of my gut looked like
that, just purpley black growth.
Joanna: So when I went in and I got my new pictures -- so let me
find it. This is in the exact same area. That's my ovary now. It's
got a little bit of white, but it is not a marble. It's pink and
fleshy and squishy like it should be. And my gut, the same area of
my gut, is up here and it's completely normal. It was really
amazing to see. I can't put it into words. It's just really
exciting. i can't even find the one now. Oh, here we go. So this is
not bad. It might look bad, but that was black before it looked
white and the reason it's white is the Endometriosis left and it
kind of left a little shadow of itself. So that is scarring but I
know if we continue with the program that can all go away because
obviously it's gone away on the other parts. So yeah, it's just
been really good.
I still battle with the end result of adhesions. It's left behind a
lot of adhesions but with the myio-fascial massage and all that, I
know it can be fixed. And I'm still taking my serapeptase. So I'm
on this road now to being so close to back to where it was, which
is super exciting.
Wendy: Well, it's fantastic to hear your story and I'm so pleased
that you're sharing this story because I know it's been an
emotional rollercoaster for you, where you've been where doctors
tell you there's only one route and it just feels quite hard to
follow with the surgery and drugs and there's no way out. And then
you take a way out and you speak to a natural path and you think
you're doing the right thing and they don't understand them to be
choices[?] [00:29:53] so they're giving you something that's
feeding Endometriosis. Because not a lot -- natural paths promote,
it's fantastic, but unless they understand Endometriosis and how
expensive it is to [Indiscernible] [00:30:05] estrogens or any
other traditional estrogens that you can blame it so quickly, and
of course that's what happened with your insides, is they
[Indiscernible] [00:30:13] but equally as well, I do remember you
telling me when you went in that your cysts had gone as well.
Joanna: Yeah, they were. So basically my reproductive area looked
really good. No cysts, my appendix looked great. My appendix in
November was marbleized. It had been attacked at one point and he
didn't remove it because he said he didn't see any growths, but it
was all white as well. But she said my appendix looked, great, my
ovaries looked good except for the two little things they found.
They did burn them off or whatever they do. And the gut looked
great, so yeah, it was good. She mentioned the adhesion. That she
could see, which I kind of expected that that would be there, but
that's a small part of everything else.
Wendy: Absolutely. And I know that you were reticent about going
for the surgery, but you were in so much pain because the DHEA had
inflamed your insides [Indiscernible] [00:31:18], which as we've
found out is now partial bowel obstruction as part of the
adhesions. You were always frightened and scared into having the
surgery, weren't you, which you were reticent. You didn't really
want to do. But we've joked about it afterward saying I'm so glad
you did because I have had women say, "Have you got surgical proof
that your program works?" and I'm going, "Well, normally the proof
is the reduction and elimination of pain and symptoms." That's
proof enough, women coming out of bed, having normal periods. And
it's being normal, like a day and a half period or very light. No
clots, not bloating no period pain. That whole shebang. And then as
I say you've gone in and -- so how does that feel to kind of see
those photographs?
Joanna: Yeah it's good. It's weird to be looking at a photograph
like that, but it
was actually one of the prettiest pictures I've seen in awhile. It
was really good, and I've actually even never seen my husband that
excited since we got married. Because really the doctor didn't even
talk to me first. She went to them because I was still coming out
of anaesthesia and when he came to see me, my husband, he just had
this big smile. I was crying partially because of that but also
because we did find there was a little bit of a bowel obstruction
because the adhesions had twisted my bowels a bit. But we are
working on that. But he goes, "I know you're overwhelmed that
there's still this pain in your side a little bit from the bowels,
but this is so exciting." He was so happy to see that. And I think
that's a big part of what this program has really helped, too, is
it's really hard to deal with Endometriosis. It's not a disease
that people consider a disease unless they have it. It's something
that I have even battled to talk to women about because I've had a
lot of women come to me and say, "I have Endometriosis and it's not
that big of a deal. Why are you making it such a big deal? It does
not hurt the way that you're saying."
Joanna:So I think even as women, the education is not there, to
know that there are different stages and it really can debilitate a
person. Because it completely knocked me -- I was bedridden for
weeks. It really does affect you. So that was hard. You feel very
alone, which what I really loved about the program is not only
having you, but you do these conferences and we get to see these
other women we're talking to face to face and it's just so nice.
It's really refreshing to have that, but it's also given me the
confidence to build a better relationship with my husband because
now we understand what are we really dealing with. It's not just,
"Oh, she's whining again. Her period. Okay, whatever." And for him
to even notice things like, "Hey, you remember last year you were
having eight day long periods and it's like three days now and
you're fine?" After surgery I was scared because two weeks after I
was getting my next period. I hadn't had one in between and I
actually called the doctor and said, "I don't want to do this. I'm
on this natural path, but I think I need you to give me some
painkillers because when my period comes it's going to be bad."
Because I had to stop all my supplements I was on because they had
me on a lot of things. And my period came and it was fine. I mean,
it hurt a little because I had surgery pain and stuff, but the
cramping was an hour, maybe two hours -- gone. And the period was
generally really good. It lasted three or four days and that was
it. And I was expecting to be in excruciating pain, so it just goes
to show it just changes you so much overall. So it's been so
amazing. It's been a really amazing journey.
Wendy: Well now remember when you said that you were expecting your
periods and the cause of all the drugs morphine and anaesthetics
and stuff you really thought like, "Brace myself. I'm going to be
in a big thunderbolt of pain." And that in itself is very
interesting isn't it, because how does that differ from the periods
you used to have before?
Joanna: Oh, they were excruciating. Like I said before, I remember
even in high school having to call my dad to leave work and come
and pick me up and you are using every ounce of your strength to
walk out the door because you cannot feel your legs. And you're
getting this wave of pain and it was intense. And it was always
like that. And to go from --
Wendy: I remember your shock when you're like, "And my periods came
and no pain and I think that's really wonderful. Full credit to you
for following the program, following the suggestions and being
consistent and persistent with it because even in spite of the
surgeon frightening you into having this surgery, which I knew you
didn't want to have, so much good has come from it, really, in your
case because you've seen your insides. You have physical proof of
your insides healing. Isn't it interesting even with everything
that's going on, your periods have improved because you've got such
great healing in there and you've been removing systematically the
inflammatory factors and swapping them out with things that re
soothing and healing so the body's healing naturally. How does it
feel? Do you think that that doctor six months ago, who pretty much
wrote you off -- if you could speak to him now --
Joanna: Well, I don't know. If he sees this. [laughter] No, but you
almost want to go and wave the pictures in their face and say look,
I did this all naturally. But you know what, I still feel like with
how stubborn some of the medical system can be that they could
still say, "That doesn't prove anything. It wasn't as bad as you
think it was anyway."
Wendy: You're right, they would dismiss it, because I did the same
when I got better. I went back to my doctor and back to my surgeon
and said, "You need to share this with other women." And they
dismissed me with the back of their hands. I think you'd got
referred to as an enigma, and what I got referred to too. But I
think when you
understand the body's always wanting to heal itself and if it's not
healing there's something stopping it. And then you're looking for
what's stopping my body from healing. And that, to me, was my first
-- when I was lying in my bedroom for three years in a gross,
dreadful state with all but giving up home of carrying on and I got
a cut on my finger and I noticed it was healing. And then I started
to think, if that's healing, why are my insides not better[?]
[00:38:46]? And then understand, as you said earlier, it's an
estrogen-dominant condition. It's a hormone imbalance, there's lots
of inflammation, so if you systematically -- and of course, as you
say, people do normally need support because you're in pain, you're
struggling just to get through the day, and that's where the
foundation program came about because people were emailing me
saying, "I read your book. It's great. It's starting to help but
I've hit a wall," or, "I need more help," or whatever. So what
particular aspects do you like? Is there a lot of emotional
support, would you say, in the foundation program that you felt had
been beneficial?
Joanna: I think it's everything. I feel like you're a combination
of a nutritionist, health coach, life coach. Yeah, it's really
helped with my emotions to -- I mean, you pushed me to start
meditation, which I hated doing and now I really appreciated it.
The journaling was horrific, but now it really helped me to get my
brain wrapped around things. It helps me to have a method of
venting, because as a woman fighting a disease like this it can be
overwhelming on those around you and you can get whiney and you can
get complaining and sometimes you can need a break. And I saw that,
that it was getting a lot for my husband and my family to handle,
and having the journal kind of gives you that break too where
you're not complaining out loud. It gave me an outlet to put my
thoughts down and I was starting to even figure more stuff out
about how I was feeling and my symptoms and connections between,
"Hey," I wrote, "I had a really stressful day and my pain level was
like a 9." And it kind of helps you become that investigator that
you spoke about.
Joanna: And then on the other hand, just the nutrition side, I know
that I can come to you and say, "This got recommended to me. What
do you think about it?" and just having tht person to go back and
forth with really makes a difference. You can do research online,
but it does make a difference to have a person to speak to. So
yeah, I loved it for all aspects of what it's done. The friendships
it's created -- I feel like Susan, who's in the program right now,
even though I've never met her, it's really enjoyable to be able to
sit and talk with her every two weeks with her. So you kind of
create a community.
Wendy: Yes. And as you said that's so important. You've said it a
couple of times and I know I felt that you feel so alone in this
disease. I think someone has cancer, everybody seems to understand
what cancer is and there's a degree of sympathy that people get
with that condition, whereas Endometriosis, I know you had people
saying it's an enigma, you've got such a small cyst, why is it
causing you so much pain -- you're always being pulled into
questioning. You have ot fight to be believed. For people to come
together who are going through that -- that's why I start these
programs every couple of months with people coming together,
starting at the same point and going through it together so you
don't feel alone, you feel that you're all in this together and it
makes you feel like you can do this. Especially on the bad days,
especially on the weeks you're just like "I can't be bothered" and
"I really want to give up," because it is a twelve week program and
you need to keep going through the program to get through.
Joanna: And it's not easy. There's a lot in the book about you.
Like, Wendy's telling me to keep doing this and I just want to
stop.
Wendy: Of course. But that's where I come in. I see myself as your
coach, your champion, running along beside you saying, "Come on,
you can do this," because I know how hard it was because I've been
there and that's why I've created the program with the different
levels of support, to say you can do this. And I never said it was
going to be easy but it's absolutely worth it to get the
results.
Joanna: It is. As soon as you get that -- it could take four or
five weeks, but it just takes a little change in your pain to
realize something's changing, or to be able to come off
painkillers. That's a huge thing, because they really don't make
you feel great, and you don't realize that until you stop taking
them. But yeah, I mean, I'd encourage any woman who, if you just
even have periods that just don't feel right, to question it and
get it looked at and question everything now. I learned after the
natural path thing to even question the supplements and I even find
every time I google a recipe or supplement or something, I always
put Endometriosis at the end of my search to see does it clear up
estrogen. What does it do? Is it a phyto-estrogen? Is it a
xeno-estrogen?
Wendy: And do you find now because you've got the education,
education webinars through the program on the membership site, do
you find that you feel more confident now with what's going in your
body and you understand it's effect?
Joanna: I definitely do. I actually feel like I go in with more
knowledge when I go in to see -- so I'm seeing a new natural path
now and everything she suggests I say we need to look up how that
affects estrogen. She says, "Why?" Because I have an
estrogen-dominant illness and I know there are a lot of things that
we might not think -- for example, turmeric. They say take turmeric
and turmeric is a phyto-oestrogen. So just little things that we
eat or put in our bodies. So it's actually been kind of fun to go
in and say, "Hey, I actually know this about my disease. This is
the type of blood work I need you to test." I didn't mention that
the reason she did the DHEA is my bloodwork did not come out that I
had extremely high estrogen. She did not look at all of the
different parts, I guess, which is what we get from your program
and there's no actual estrogen. There's three actual components
that make it up and if we had done that then we would have seen. So
later down the road, the next blood work, yes, it showed it, but
initially it didn't which was why the DHEA was prescribed because
"you don't have an estrogen problem."
Wendy: Well, that said I think, again, medical profession are
trained in a certain way. They're not trained in nutrition. Natural
paths don't understand, again, the hormonal perimetar of women with
Endometriosis and don't tend to -- what the program does is look at
the whole of you, not a one result or a one symptom. It looks at
all of the different aspects together and then forms a picture, and
that's where, when you and I are working together, we're working
together as detectives, Sherlock Holmes going, "Right, let's look
at this a bit closer," because there's always a reason why you're
getting a symptom or something while you're going through the
program. And I think what I've really noticed with you since the
beginning of the program is your confidence. Perhaps you could
share with people how you felt about coming on just 10 weeks
ago?
Joanna: I mean, I did not want to show my face. I think we were
doing a conference call or something. Yes, I work with children. I
can be super outgoing with kids, but when it comes to something
like this -- I mean, I'm still nervous right now. Don't get me
wrong. You're exposing yourself. You are. And I know this is going
to be public, so you're vulnerable, but I feel more happy to share
it because you do get that confidence and the excitement gives you
that confidence and the knowledge gives it to you. So I want to
help other women because, like, I said, I thought I was doing great
and it literally hit me. I went one day fine and the next day
suddenly --
Wendy: But you were really unlucky because you were doing great and
it was just an unfortunate thing that your natural path didn't
understand Endometriosis.
Joanna: Yeah, but this is even before your book. So last year, it
went from super active to Endometriosis hit me hard. That can
happen to anybody and you don't realize it. I think it's important
as soon as you start feeling symptoms you really start to look into
it and what is causing it, what's going on. It's worth the effort
on your part as a person to look out for yourself.
Wendy: And what would you say to women who are considering the
foundation program now?
Joanna: I would definitely recommend it. It is worth it. It's
worth, if anything, having that support network. I mean, I know you
have the advanced program, so I know there's a possibility you're
not going to be 100% fixed at the end of the 12 weeks, but what it
did for me -- I think we're on week 11 now. We're almost done --
what it did for me, it gave me the tools that I didn't now to have.
I wouldn't have even thought to take -- I had never heard of
Serapeptase. I had never heard of the protein powders and never
considered them.
Wendy: I think that's it I think that's what my aim was with the
programs, everything in the book. But the program was to give you a
toolbag. A toolbag can be the support network, give you
multi-learning at different levels. You have the webinars, audios,
handouts, downloads, Facebook group, group Q&A calls every
fortnight, the one on ones with me. So there was that level of
support, because normally people stop off really well with great
enthusiasm and they hit a wall or life gets in the way and that's
where they need that additional support.
Joanna: Yeah, and I think that's kind of hitting the nail on the
head. If I have to encourage anyone with the program, it would be
you will have moments where you hit a wall and you will feel like
it's not working or you're going backwards. It's almost that saying
of it's going to get worse before it gets better, and you do go
through that within the first couple weeks.
Wendy: I'd like to call that being tested. You're being tested as
if to say "do you really want to get well?" because this program
works if you work it.
Joanna: Yeah, and you have to push through.
Wendy: But sometimes that's where the support comes in and it's
normally six to eight weeks before people start to see the
benefits, but it's that combination of factors with one had coming
down through the layers of the onion and looking for the core of
the information, and on the other hand putting great seeds in to
get great roots of nutrition and amino acids and vitamins and
minerals. So you're feeding your body with everything it needs to
heal itself whilst removing and swapping out what's causing the
symptoms.
Joanna: And you feel better. Like, food wise, I told you I love
food. I love fast food. I love everything, but now we eat so much
better and we call it fancy food because you're having really good
quality things that you would go to a restaurant and pay $50 or
whatever a plate for and it's by no means that much when you make
it at home. But you do start eating really well and it can be
really fun. It is a really fun journey once you can get past --
stop focusing on your pain and your Endometriosis and start
focusing on you getting better.
Wendy: Absolutely. I think you told me a funny story about your
husband as well. It was a bit funny about the food to start with
and then he went out and had some horrible food and then came back
and --
Joanna: Yeah. We had been going gluten free and dairy free. I'd
cook him his huge meal and 20 minutes later he'd be starving.
That's something we learned. Our body is just taking in everything,
so for the first little while like 20 minutes in you're like, "Man,
I just had dinner and I'm hungry again." But he hated that feeling
and he goes, "I need my sugar. I need my gluten. That's what made
me feel good!" I said "Okay, there's nothing physically wrong with
you. You can go back on sugar and gluten. I don't care. Thank you
for being there for me, but I'm good now. You can go back." He went
out for a burger or something and he goes, "Ugh, I feel terrible.
I'm never eating gluten again!" So he's actually away on a work
trip and he's eating all gluten free, dairy free, soy free, because
he says he feels so much better. And he's not the one that has an
illness. So I think it's good for everybody.
Wendy: Well that's it. I think the program does have rippling
effects. I know families and partners get involved as well to help
support the necessary lifestyle change that needs to be made. It
has rippling effects out to everybody, which is fantastic.
Joanna: Yeah, and I think when it comes to doctors, the hard thing
is you have the foundation but you still have the doctor on the
side. And I wouldn't say get rid of your doctor, but I think it's
important -- like, what I had to do is I had to really search out a
doctor that would listen, and I am blessed now that I am working
with the surgeon that did this recent surgery. She's so supportive
of me taking the natural route and she knows that my goal is to be
as natural as possible. So yes, she would love me to take the
medical medications if I agreed to, but she's okay. She goes, "I
want you to try everything for you that you feel will work for you
and I'll be here if -- " let's say, Wendy's program never worked,
then they're there but it works. I can't say it doesn't work. So
you need to seek out people that will hear you.
Wendy: And I think that's what the aim of the program is, too, to
widen your community of support on the other side as well and make
sure that you have your voice, know that it's okay to say know,
know that it's okay to ask questions because, again, our culture
encourages people to be a good girl and a yes girl and kind of
"Yes, Doctor. Whatever, Doctor." Too frightened to question and
ask. And obviously when you're making that transition away from the
conventional medical field and looking at natural routes, it can be
a bit daunting, be a bit scary. Kind of take that responsibility.
But that's where, again, I encourage women and if they are having
to interact with their doctors in any capacity, even if it's just
from a reassurance perspective to go "You're still there in the
sidelines, aren’t you? Right. I'm going to teach you what is
working for my body." And it's wonderful when you get doctors and
surgeons -- I had a doctor who started using the same protocols and
principals with people in his surgery, in his clinic, and he was
emailing me going, "Wendy, this works!" and I'm going, "I know.
I've been telling you this for months." It's wonderful when they
start to listen, and if they're a good doctor or surgeon they'll be
excited for you because the whole ethos of a doctor is to do no
harm. That's their motto. Clearly their aim is to heal you, to help
you to get better, not to make you worse, so if you are getting
better I would hope a good surgeon or doctor who's supportive of
your choice to take this route is happy that you're getting better,
because surely that's the aim, not to keep you pumped full of drugs
and painkillers.
Joanna: Yeah, and you will find the ones that are like that, but
there are good ones out there and you just have to be willing to
let go of the one you have and search out. And you can. I'm sure
everywhere there is someone that you can find.
Wendy: But ultimately it's all about not having that requirement
with a surgeon or doctor.
Joanna: Yeah, exactly.
Wendy: It's all about you knowing your body better than anybody. I
don't care what they're trained in or how many years they've been
in the field. It does not interest me one jot because the women I
work with, they know their bodies better than anybody else. They
have lost that relationship with their body.
Joanna: Well, prior to my downturn in June, I didn't go to the
doctor for the four months, and I was going a lot before that. So,
yeah. And I think one of the biggest things that you've really
helped me with is learning to say no to people. Not just doctors.
To just people and things in my life, because I think I shared in
the beginning of the program -- I love to help. No matter how I'm
feeling, I'll say yes. We had a friend move and I was feeling
terrible and I went and I helped them move and I remember you
saying, "What's wrong with you? Why did you do that?" I couldn't
say no. And it's taken me awhile to get there, but it's really
important to listen to your body and know when to rest and to know
when to tell people, "Hey, I'd love to be there but I just can't
right now. I need to look after myself. I'm not doing well. When
I'm better, yes, I'll be there." So that's been a really big help,
because for women, if you have kids -- I don't have children, but
for those who have children, you feel like there's a lot of demand
on you.
Wendy: Yeah, absolutely. Well, I think you've had an amazing
journey so far. I've admired your commitment to yourself even from
the beginning to implement the book, and again, just keeping moving
forward, keeping being consistent and persistent, listening to your
body -- you’ve had life throw obstacles in your path, but you've
bounced back and you're living to tell the tale, which is
fantastic.
Joanna: I feel thankful to you.
Wendy: Aw, well it's great working with people like yourself.
You're really committed. Because the program doesn't work -- people
poke it with a little stick and think it's a fad because it is a
lifestyle thing. I refer to it as a new path. It is a pathway that
once you're on you can't revert back to eating rubbish, you can't
revert back to all the various stuff because then your symptoms
will return, but you can see from the photographic evidence, which
is so exciting, that if you do make the changes your body responds
accordingly, and that's really exciting.
Joanna: Yeah, but even without photographic evidence, you were
saying like with eating, I have cheated. I've had a bite of
something that's got gluten and you feel it right away. Your body
starts to talk to you and that's actually pretty neat in
itself.
Wendy: Exactly. It's having that confidence of knowing what it's
saying and what is happening, making those connections. Thank you
so much for coming to chat with us today. I know that lots of women
will take great hope and comfort from this and this is why I was so
pleased that you were prepared to come and chat with me because I
think people think, oh, well it worked for Wendy but it's not going
to work for me, or it might have worked for the women on her
testimonial page -- probably paid them to say that, which I didn't.
Previous students as well. Just the very fact that you've had the
HSG test, your cysts disappeared, your ovaries are better, your
uterus is better, your intestines are better, and even your period.
I mean, wow. In amongst all of that your period improved. I felt
that was something people would want to hear because it's a lot of
people, if they're maybe listening to this in their bed or bath
going, "Oh, there's no hope," with all these drugs with terrible
side effects I want to see that their is hope and here Joanna is
living testament, as I am and other women, and I just want to thank
you so much for taking the time out. It was a wonderful chat.
Joanna: You're welcome. Thank you for having me.
Wendy: No problem at all. Yeah, so thanks very much".
Want to get more support and guidance as you start on your healing journey?
Order your FREE paperback book ‘Heal Endometriosis Naturally Without Painkillers, Drugs or Surgery’ worth £14.99 at https://HealEndometriosisNaturallyBook.com (just pay shipping £7.95).
Or apply to work with Wendy on the 12 Week Online ‘Foundation Program’ at